Comments on: Comment – End of recession won’t end hard times… http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/ Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:51:12 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: admin http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1740 admin Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:57:13 +0000 http://www.demolitionnews.com/?p=2501#comment-1740 I just wanted to pick up on the comment made by TKC Corp above with regard to providing the industry with a venue for help and guidance. This is something that I have been discussing for quite some time with John Woodward at C&D Consultancy, both in his role as a trainer AND in his role as vice president of Institute of Demolition Engineers. I for one believe that the way forward to industry professionals is a common and universally-recognised professional qualification, something that the IDE has already developed and which they could (and do) offer beyond UK shores. In addition, we have been discussing the possibility of hosting some online "webinars" on a variety of demolition-specific subjects. One of the key stumbling blocks for this has always been the potential language barrier although, thankfully, this SHOULD be less of an issue with US-based contractors. (And if you're not keen on the online format, I am sure that John would willingly visit the US if the demand were sufficiently high). As for a venue, Demolition News was established as a news aggregation site, one that pulled together industry news from wherever it could be gleaned. Over the ast year, and in response to reader/subscriber demand, that remit has changed and we will happily change it again (or add to it) if that's what is required. I have no intention of creating another demolitionforum as that model already exists. Although, I do firmly believe that there IS scope for an area that bans all forms of sales and promotion and is merely a hub for demolition professionals to meet, discuss their concerns and issues, and to push best practice regardless of geographic location, language, or size of the business. I'd love to hear what others think. Mark I just wanted to pick up on the comment made by TKC Corp above with regard to providing the industry with a venue for help and guidance.
This is something that I have been discussing for quite some time with John Woodward at C&D Consultancy, both in his role as a trainer AND in his role as vice president of Institute of Demolition Engineers.
I for one believe that the way forward to industry professionals is a common and universally-recognised professional qualification, something that the IDE has already developed and which they could (and do) offer beyond UK shores.
In addition, we have been discussing the possibility of hosting some online “webinars” on a variety of demolition-specific subjects. One of the key stumbling blocks for this has always been the potential language barrier although, thankfully, this SHOULD be less of an issue with US-based contractors. (And if you’re not keen on the online format, I am sure that John would willingly visit the US if the demand were sufficiently high).
As for a venue, Demolition News was established as a news aggregation site, one that pulled together industry news from wherever it could be gleaned. Over the ast year, and in response to reader/subscriber demand, that remit has changed and we will happily change it again (or add to it) if that’s what is required.
I have no intention of creating another demolitionforum as that model already exists. Although, I do firmly believe that there IS scope for an area that bans all forms of sales and promotion and is merely a hub for demolition professionals to meet, discuss their concerns and issues, and to push best practice regardless of geographic location, language, or size of the business.
I’d love to hear what others think.
Mark

]]> By: admin http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1738 admin Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:02:31 +0000 http://www.demolitionnews.com/?p=2501#comment-1738 That is terribly sad if that proves to be true. Yet another huge loss of knowledge, expertise and experience, and at a time when the industry can least afford it! That is terribly sad if that proves to be true. Yet another huge loss of knowledge, expertise and experience, and at a time when the industry can least afford it!

]]> By: john woodward http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1737 john woodward Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:59:57 +0000 http://www.demolitionnews.com/?p=2501#comment-1737 I am sure Mark that they have and will continue to put training as low on their list of priorities when things are tight. I have heard worrying news today that a major Midlands demolition contractor is pulling out of demolition completetly to concentrate on other areas of their business. Will they be the first of many? I am sure Mark that they have and will continue to put training as low on their list of priorities when things are tight. I have heard worrying news today that a major Midlands demolition contractor is pulling out of demolition completetly to concentrate on other areas of their business. Will they be the first of many?

]]> By: admin http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1735 admin Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:33:23 +0000 http://www.demolitionnews.com/?p=2501#comment-1735 John, I think your attempt to ease contractors through the current (and ongoing) recession is commendable, but I do wonder just how many demolition companies have simply drawn a line through their training budgets as they batten down the hatches? John, I think your attempt to ease contractors through the current (and ongoing) recession is commendable, but I do wonder just how many demolition companies have simply drawn a line through their training budgets as they batten down the hatches?

]]> By: john woodward http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1734 john woodward Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:21:38 +0000 http://www.demolitionnews.com/?p=2501#comment-1734 Mark, I agree fully with your article and feel that many contractors have made a mistake in not continuing to train when things are tight but when funding has been withdrawn ther is little to help contractors to cover costs. NDTG and ourselves have cut training course costs to help companies but I notice that calls regarding training are mainly for a course "now" because a client has insisted on a particular training certificate, rather than a structured training approach over the year. We at C&D are able to offer a free training consultation to advise clients as to what training they will need over the next 12 months to keep industry compliant and they can spread the cost of that training by a simple monthly payment. Maybe this is the way to go to ensure that when the recession eases we are ready to move. Mark, I agree fully with your article and feel that many contractors have made a mistake in not continuing to train when things are tight but when funding has been withdrawn ther is little to help contractors to cover costs. NDTG and ourselves have cut training course costs to help companies but I notice that calls regarding training are mainly for a course “now” because a client has insisted on a particular training certificate, rather than a structured training approach over the year.
We at C&D are able to offer a free training consultation to advise clients as to what training they will need over the next 12 months to keep industry compliant and they can spread the cost of that training by a simple monthly payment. Maybe this is the way to go to ensure that when the recession eases we are ready to move.

]]> By: Tkc Corp http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1728 Tkc Corp Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:05:37 +0000 http://www.demolitionnews.com/?p=2501#comment-1728 We agree with “the end of recession won’t end hard times”. The recession effects and transfer of value may turn out to be the very drivers of economics that could begin to radically transform and change current demolition methodologies and business mindsets on a national contracting and project development scale. The issues of value engineering, planning, maintenance, recycling, environmental, and personnel training are just some of the many upfront issues that we feel need addressed at all levels of the demolition industry. In these current conditions the competitive contracting bid process alone foster some of these issues. It does appear that a majority of the smaller, honest, hard working contractors in our industry do not have the resources nor the contract/estimating and/or business development expertise to operate successfully. These owners/managers appear to be to busy running equipment and/or expediting equipment and supplies to get the big picture of the negative results that occur with non-performance and below cost bidding strategies. The odds were more than likely stacked against them from the planning phases of the project. . We believe that this is one of the major factors that has led to non-performance of contracts, negative press, safety issues, liens and lawsuits, etc, which still appears to be rampant in this industry and is referenced again and again in some of the demolition posts. There is nothing worst in a contractor’s life than trying to perform a hard money contract when you (as a contractor) know you bid well below cost!! This is a cause and affects issue that not only affects the industry, owner/employees, but family members and friends as well….It is a vicious circle and this operational strategy is not fishing on the right side of the boat. When the top line looks shaky and the bottom line looks worse, the temptation is to go after discretionary spending. Fine – but we are not considering innovation, project development, marketing operations, and building the company optional. Sacrificing our business future for a slightly more comfortable present is not worth it. Why not give the industry a venue to find real help, guidance, and to be of added value to their individual operations by offering educational training, business development strategies, contract administration help etc, etc and promote “professionalism” within the industry at the same time? Talk about a bang for the buck! We agree with “the end of recession won’t end hard times”. The recession effects and transfer of value may turn out to be the very drivers of economics that could begin to radically transform and change current demolition methodologies and business mindsets on a national contracting and project development scale.

The issues of value engineering, planning, maintenance, recycling, environmental, and personnel training are just some of the many upfront issues that we feel need addressed at all levels of the demolition industry. In these current conditions the competitive contracting bid process alone foster some of these issues.

It does appear that a majority of the smaller, honest, hard working contractors in our industry do not have the resources nor the contract/estimating and/or business development expertise to operate successfully. These owners/managers appear to be to busy running equipment and/or expediting equipment and supplies to get the big picture of the negative results that occur with non-performance and below cost bidding strategies. The odds were more than likely stacked against them from the planning phases of the project.
.
We believe that this is one of the major factors that has led to non-performance of contracts, negative press, safety issues, liens and lawsuits, etc, which still appears to be rampant in this industry and is referenced again and again in some of the demolition posts.

There is nothing worst in a contractor’s life than trying to perform a hard money contract when you (as a contractor) know you bid well below cost!! This is a cause and affects issue that not only affects the industry, owner/employees, but family members and friends as well….It is a vicious circle and this operational strategy is not fishing on the right side of the boat.

When the top line looks shaky and the bottom line looks worse, the temptation is to go after discretionary spending. Fine – but we are not considering innovation, project development, marketing operations, and building the company optional. Sacrificing our business future for a slightly more comfortable present is not worth it.

Why not give the industry a venue to find real help, guidance, and to be of added value to their individual operations by offering educational training, business development strategies, contract administration help etc, etc and promote “professionalism” within the industry at the same time? Talk about a bang for the buck!

]]> By: michael saunders http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1726 michael saunders Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:19:48 +0000 http://www.demolitionnews.com/?p=2501#comment-1726 while agreeing with the things you have said in your article, there also a few underlying factors to all of this. I for noticed that when this recession started early last year i noticed an alarming trend in the use of labour to cut costs in many firms. I saw the use of workers with only CSCS cards and not CCDO working on sites, and although i said to my emplorer that if anything went wrong he would have problems with either the HSE or his insurance it was swept under the carpet (or because it was cheaper to use unskilled workers ?) but no matter what is said or done you have hit the nail on the head about training. Thanks to you and C&D my problem is about to be sorted but my main concern is that will this practice of using totally inapt workers being allowed on site. I may only be a topman but i have access to the HSE site i also try to keep up with all legisation regarding my chosen industry and willfight tooth and nail to keep my CCDO current. But if companies keep using cheaper labour who have only use CSCS the older workers like me will at some point think what the hell its time to go. And lets be honest about this, you can rewad or study as much as you like but how do you compare that to 40 years work and experience. I have stood on walls and hand dug them down in the early years and watche as this industry has gone from strength to strength in safety, but if Demolition loses the likes of us who have the experience who will train or show those coming in how it is and should be done. To any company owners or directers who read this, why not all put into a fund to help those who like myself have earned your companies the money over the years. You can only beat the donkey so much because one day it will just give up and turn away. So if we do come out of this recession at some point there may be a load who do not have the current cards and what happens then, no cards no work no industry and maybe no companies for lack of foresight while agreeing with the things you have said in your article, there also a few underlying factors to all of this. I for noticed that when this recession started early last year i noticed an alarming trend in the use of labour to cut costs in many firms. I saw the use of workers with only CSCS cards and not CCDO working on sites, and although i said to my emplorer that if anything went wrong he would have problems with either the HSE or his insurance it was swept under the carpet (or because it was cheaper to use unskilled workers ?) but no matter what is said or done you have hit the nail on the head about training. Thanks to you and C&D my problem is about to be sorted but my main concern is that will this practice of using totally inapt workers being allowed on site. I may only be a topman but i have access to the HSE site i also try to keep up with all legisation regarding my chosen industry and willfight tooth and nail to keep my CCDO current. But if companies keep using cheaper labour who have only use CSCS the older workers like me will at some point think what the hell its time to go. And lets be honest about this, you can rewad or study as much as you like but how do you compare that to 40 years work and experience. I have stood on walls and hand dug them down in the early years and watche as this industry has gone from strength to strength in safety, but if Demolition loses the likes of us who have the experience who will train or show those coming in how it is and should be done. To any company owners or directers who read this, why not all put into a fund to help those who like myself have earned your companies the money over the years. You can only beat the donkey so much because one day it will just give up and turn away. So if we do come out of this recession at some point there may be a load who do not have the current cards and what happens then, no cards no work no industry and maybe no companies for lack of foresight

]]> By: Jon http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1720 Jon Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:31:24 +0000 http://www.demolitionnews.com/?p=2501#comment-1720 Excellent Article, very informative and definitely a thought for the weekend. However I wonder how many other labour dependant industries this question also applies too, and how will it stifle our future growth. The I.T. service industry is one I am already aware of. Excellent Article, very informative and definitely a thought for the weekend.
However I wonder how many other labour dependant industries this question also applies too, and how will it stifle our future growth.
The I.T. service industry is one I am already aware of.

]]> By: Oliver James http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1717 Oliver James Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:33:07 +0000 http://www.demolitionnews.com/?p=2501#comment-1717 That doesn't make for very cheerful reading Mark, but unfortunately I think there's a lot of truth in it, particularly the reference to value engineering. I can't remember the last contract I saw that wasn't cut in some way post-tender. That doesn’t make for very cheerful reading Mark, but unfortunately I think there’s a lot of truth in it, particularly the reference to value engineering. I can’t remember the last contract I saw that wasn’t cut in some way post-tender.

]]> By: End of recession not necessarily end of tough times - Demolitionforum.com Forums http://www.demolitionnews.com/2009/08/21/comment-%e2%80%93-end-of-recession-won%e2%80%99t-be-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-1716 End of recession not necessarily end of tough times - Demolitionforum.com Forums Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:18:25 +0000 http://www.demolitionnews.com/?p=2501#comment-1716 [...] End of recession not necessarily end of tough times Demolition & Dismantling editor Mark Anthony postulates that while the first signs of economic recovery might now be emerging, a true recovery remains a long way off for the world's demolition contractors. Read the full article here. [...] [...] End of recession not necessarily end of tough times Demolition & Dismantling editor Mark Anthony postulates that while the first signs of economic recovery might now be emerging, a true recovery remains a long way off for the world’s demolition contractors. Read the full article here. [...]

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